Embracing Minimalist Living: The Journey From Gypsy Roots To Tiny Living

In this episode, Samantha Noel shares her journey from a gypsy childhood to embracing van life and the tiny house movement. She discusses the challenges and joys of living minimally, the importance of community, and the lessons learned while building her own tiny home. Samantha emphasizes the value of experiences over possessions and encourages others to explore alternative living options.

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Transcript

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It takes a brave and independent mindset to go tiny. If you are trying to figure out your tiny pivot, this podcast is here to inspire and connect you with the other unconventional, gritty, inspirational people within this community. I am Laura Lynch, your tiny house friend and host. On this show, we are always going to come back to money because as a financial planner, this is the question I hear the most. How do I make this work for me financially? Well, that's my jam, so jump in, let's go. New episodes drop every Thursday. Sam, Samantha, Noelle, welcome to Les House, more Mola podcast. Thank you so much for having me, Laura. I'm so glad that we get to have this conversation because you and I got to chitty chat a little briefly at Tiny Fest in California, but I just feel like I never get enough time in those sort of venues to have a really robust conversation, especially since you were working and keeping things flowing smoothly. So thanks for coming on the podcast. My pleasure. Would you please for listeners introduce yourself and talk about what home was like for you growing up? Yeah, absolutely. So I am 38 years old now. I have moved as many times as I am years old. But I live in Oregon currently by way of Michigan. I grew up in and around the Metro Detroit area the majority of my life and but was very much, this is a term of endearment in my family. So I hope I don't push the wrong button for anyone, but we referred to ourselves as a gypsy family. We moved almost every single year until I was in high school. And then I still proceeded to move many times after that. So always on the go for various reasons. I was raised by a single mother and sometimes it was just... The job moved, so we needed to move. Other times it was, you know, our housing situation was no longer tenable. You know, either landlords changing the rules or rent going up, you know, different things, school district issues, that sort of thing. So we moved a lot when I was growing up as a kid. And it was always easier for me than I think it is for some people. You know, I... I have many friends who have lived and grown up in the same place their whole lives, their parents still live in the house that they grew up in. you know, there's always that sense of home for a lot of people, like in that stationary place. And my grandmother's home where I lived during the years of my high school years is that place for me, even though it wasn't always my home. You know, I've always kind of had that home base in Detroit. that's always been kind of the one constant for me. And I think that helped keep me grounded, but even though we were still moving all the time. So we lived, like I said, in and around Metro Detroit most of my life. And I moved out at about 19, lived in several different places, moving for work and things like that. And then... bought my first condo with my partner and lived there for about a year and a half and decided that we wanted to try to live in the city. The city of Detroit was getting somewhat of an influx of business and revitalization. Dan Gilbert moved his Quicken Loans headquarters down there and really pushed a lot of business right into the heart of the center of downtown. So we went looking and found a beautiful brownstone and kind of swooped it out from under the market. It wasn't even for sale. We basically solicited everybody who lived in these brownstones and was like, we want to buy, who wants to sell? And we got super lucky. There was a couple of doctor residents who were finishing up their residency and were gonna be moving back out of state. And so was super seamless. It never went on the market. We just bought it direct from them on a steal of a deal. And then lived there for a couple of years until we just decided that winter was not doing us any favors anymore. We didn't want to be there during winter anymore. And we had lived in Michigan our whole lives and decided it wasn't, it wasn't for us anymore. We wanted to do something different. So we packed up everything and moved to Southern California. Out of everywhere in the world, my partner at the time was very fortunate enough to be able to continue his job with Quicken Loans and work remotely. So we were really, really fortunate that they let us, you know, move clear across the country and still keep his job. you know, I immediately actually found work with one of their partner companies in reverse mortgage industry and worked similarly to what I do now, which is in the facilities department, kind of working for the office itself. And we were there a little over three years and had randomly had a conversation with a college friend of ours one day. They had said, yeah, I know this guy, he just like sold everything he owns and. bought some weird van so he can go and live in the mountains and snowboard all winter. And it's so random and so weird. And this was like between 2016 and 2017. So it was before like there was such a big like, you know, Instagram push for van life. Like there was some people out there doing it, but it wasn't like being popularized yet. And it kind of just became a joke like, I could totally live in a van down by the river. know, that classic Chris Farley SNL skit, you know, immediately comes to mind. And my partner and I kind of ingest were just like, you couldn't live in a van. No, you could live in a van. I was like, I had grew up like a gypsy. I could live in a van. No problem. And after a couple of weeks of just kind of... chewing on it a little bit and talking about it and deciding that, you know, living in San Diego, paying to live in San Diego with, you know, three cars, a three bedroom house, all of the furniture, all of the stuff and things, just not doing anything to make us any happier. You know, we got out of Michigan and out of winter, but, you know, in terms of like our overall like happiness, were like, you know, maybe there's more out there. and we just decided we were like, let's, let's just do it. There's, there's always more money. There's always more stuff and things we can always accumulate it again. and we started by having a couple of garage sales, estate sales, literally sold everything we own, apart from afford focus and everything we had left fit inside that. and, I stayed in San Diego working for about a month and my partner flew back east to stay with family and look for the van. And as soon as he found the van and purchased it, I packed up the Ford Focus and drove back across the country. And then while we started construction, I was driving for like Lyft and Uber. So we kept the Focus for a little while doing that just to kind of keep some income coming in, but we were very fortunate when we sold our property in Detroit, we made a fair amount of profit because it was becoming a new arena district where they were building a brand new arena right downtown. So we kind of got out of it in the top of the market, which was really nice. And then my partner, of course, even working remotely was working extensive amount of hours and we had really banked quite a lot in savings at that point. not having a lot of overhead apart from just our housing costs and things. So, you know, for the most part, the van, the build, and the first like year and a half on the road were really just financed by savings. So we spent about six months in Michigan building out the van. Probably would have gone faster if we were able to stay in one place, but you know, crazy. friends and family situations just made us shift every two months. So, you know, through the tumultuousness of all of that and learning to build it on the fly as well, neither one of us were like builders or, you know, very handy by trade. We literally just got on YouTube and found what we lovingly referred to as YouTube University and learned how to do everything that we did. We did have a cousin that was an electrician, but he was a residential electrician, had never worked with solar. So we kind of learned as we went when we put everything together in the van with him. But he basically just made sure we didn't cross any wires or, you know, may start any fires pretty much. And yeah, so that's kind of like the long version of that story. But, you know, as soon as we got the van done, we got on the road. That was the push point for us was just, let's just get on the road. Let's just get on the road. And, you know, after six long agonizing months, you know, we bought a couple of big tools, a planer and a joiner, because we made the majority of the interior out of reclaimed pallet wood. So walls, ceiling, the only thing that we bought new basically was the framework for everything. And then a couple of pieces of plywood for our cabinetry. Other than that, it was all reclaimed wood or reused materials from other various sources. And then we were officially gone bananas. That was our Instagram handle and the Instagram is still out there. It still exists. People can still check it out and see our build and everything. But we just stopped maintaining it when we left fan life and. you know, we traveled a little over 40 ,000 miles all over the country, for, you know, about two years full time. but, know, two people and a dog in a van full time. you know, it was, it was, it was crazy and it was an amazing, amazing time. I don't think that either of us thought we would do it for as long as we did. We were just like, this is an experiment. Let's see how it goes. And then after like, you know, a few. trials and tribulations on the road, we were like, let's just keep going. And, you know, it just kind of, it turned into much more than an experiment and like truly like a lifestyle. A few months into things, we went to our very first tiny house festival down in Texas. And we met, you know, this amazing and vast and dynamic community that we didn't even know was out there. And I think that that just meeting that community and everybody there, I think really like made us believe like, this is not just something to do for fun. Like this is a real lifestyle and people really do this permanently. And you know, how do we feel about that? And you know, all of that kind of stuff. it was, it was an incredible, incredible journey. My partner and I, towards the end of that two years, did decide to separate and kind of go and do our own thing. We both had pathways that were taking us apart from one another. so we went forward with that and I ended up with the van. And as much as I wanted to keep it, I really wanted to have a home base and travel from there. and not just be constantly mobile all the time. So in 2021, I sold the van and took some of the profits from that and bought a tiny house shell. So I'm currently still and forever in slow progress, but building out that tiny house to live in full -time. And it's been... spectacular just to even get it started, but it's going really well right now. But that's the van life is really what started it. And it is something that's still like near and dear to my heart. And I think that if I had a rig like that still, I would probably travel in it a lot more than I do currently. I do tend to go on like small road trips that take me, you know, two to four hours away from home and just spend. two days out in nature doing nothing. It kind of takes me back to that without like having to always live in the van, which is nice. I like being able to get back to the home base and the bed and indoor plumbing and all of those creature comforts as it were. But I think the biggest thing that stuck with me and resonated with me throughout all of it was just the idea of minimalism and really the idea of like, you know, having experiences rather than things. You know, I'm not much for souvenirs when I go places anymore, but I do love to collect stickers and have some panels that I kept from my van. of all of the places that had been visited, different national parks or strange roadside tourist traps and things of that nature. Even just random convenience stores that happen to have their own bumper sticker for whatever reason to just say, hey, I've been there. We did that. So I think that the... The minimalism, think, is what stuck me to it and was like, yes, tiny house, tiny house on wheels. You know, the intricacies of like paying property taxes or not, you know, not having a mortgage, you know, all of that kind of stuff. Like, okay, I've done that. It's not what I want to be tied into, you know, for 30 plus years. The level of of interest that you pay or just the overall costs that you pay for like a normal brick and mortar home over its lifespan. You think, yeah, okay, you bought a $200 ,000 home, but I feel like with a standard mortgage over time, you end up paying double that, and is it really worth it? And I think that the tiny house movement, as it were, has definitely become more and more popularized thanks to social media and things like that. But I definitely see like a wide range of the type of people who do it, why they do it, why they stick with it, why some people don't. They try it out and they decide it's not for them and they go back to normal brick and mortar living. I think that's, it's not like a one size fits all, but it's also like, there's so many options out there. Like just cause a 200 square foot unit might not be for you, doesn't mean there's not still like a tiny house option out there that will work for you. I really have very much enjoyed seeing the changes and the availability, I think really is the biggest piece for me of like what's actually out there. And it's not just, you know, one builder. in one area, it's becoming widespread and across the whole world, not just the US. Sorry, I chat and chat and I will just keep talking. if you have more specific questions, please just jump in. Yeah, I have so many things that I wanna tease out from all of those details. That is amazing. Thank you for. sharing your story, my overall sort of like takeaway from you is just your positive, you know, your positive view on everything that's happened to you. I'm sure that in all those moves that you did as a kid, there were good parts and maybe not so good parts. And gosh, you just seem like you've taken the whole of your life and woven it into this beautiful, you know, version of who you are. And I'm so curious. as to whether or not you think that, you know, gypsy lifestyle, which is, is funny. It's a, you know, I don't, I don't know where in pop culture people are going with the gypsy thing these days. But when I was young, I rebranded myself as a gypsy at some point in high school. And I had a gypsy name that I went by in high school. Kind of funny, right? Cause I had that wandering spirit and I just wondered if, if that made you more comfortable, you know, like if going into van life felt more comfortable for you because of the way you grew up, what do you think? I definitely think that it was a big influence in my ability to do it comfortably for sure. I think a lot more people are hesitant about change, especially especially big change, you know, which going to those creature from those creature comforts to, you know, something as you know, simple as a composting toilet, you know, or showering at the gym every other day. You know, those are things that like really set people off and a lot of people are very uncomfortable with, at least initially, or just don't think that they're even capable of doing that. And for me personally, I definitely believe that just the way that I was raised and grew up and the adaptability that I've always had has definitely, definitely made van life far simpler for me to adjust to and be comfortable with almost immediately. Yeah. Yeah. I spent, I always go back to my camping. Like we did a lot of camping, both my parents were teachers. know, teachers don't make a lot of money. Our vacations were camping. I think that that freeing piece of being in that small living space that you're kind of pulling things together yourself and yet having so much less available to you in my experience felt freeing in comparison to my regular life. And so I really think that that is kind of where I got attracted to tiny living from that camping experience. So you and I have that sort of, you know, upbringing piece that, you know, ties into where we landed. And it sounds like that your experience was kind of a little on the early end of things. And then you got really attracted to the lifestyle and the people and the community. And you talked about that some. So since then you've gotten involved with TinyFest, right? So you've really gone all in on the lifestyle. And I'm wondering like, You've been in it for a long time. What keeps you coming back, even though there's so much change happening in the community, more and more people are getting on board. When more and more people get on board with anything, it changes things. What keeps you coming back? I think part of it really is just the availability of like doing it your own way, right? There's so many people now that are, you know, gathering with like a group of friends. and purchasing a large piece of property and then everybody can just like be there communally, you know, whether they're only there for a couple of months or they stay there year round and travel out from there. I think the concept of like, there's no cookie cutter way that this has to be done is definitely something that has like kept me drawn in because, you know, I've now... lived in the same place for almost six years, which in my 38, almost 39 years on this planet is the longest I've ever lived in one place. And even in high school, because I lived in the same house for the four years I was in high school, I was always like at three o 'clock in the morning randomly rearranging my room because I needed something to change. I needed a shift. to make me feel that normal sense of like, comfortability because, okay, it's shifted, everything's changed, it's different now, okay, now I can get back into the groove. You I almost needed that change to stay comfortable. Whereas most people don't live in change comfortably. It's very hard for a lot of people to change big things. And so I think my ability to... have control over what I had control over being a high school student was, you know, the way my room was arranged. And so it felt very normal for me to just like get a bug up me one day and be like, I think I want my bed over there now, you know? And then I don't think that I realized it at the time, but I think years later, as I continued to move, I'm like, I wonder if that's, that's why I used to rearrange my room all the time. It just, I needed to feel that change, you know? And I think that that's kind of stuck with me quite a bit. But the ability to create these communities and kind of live in any version of it that suits you best, I think is really what has kept me drawn into it. And having met my friend Renee, who puts on these festivals and become with her and helping her and her property and along her travels on her many rigs, going from a tiny house to an ambulance to the short bus. She's shifted a lot in her tiny living and I think that we were kind of almost kindred spirits to an extent of that we really like what it has to offer and how different it can be for everybody. and, you know, being able to be friends with her and, know, kind of dip my toe into the festival side of things. you know, and I think that we have a, her and I have a similar mindset in that, you know, it's about bringing all of those options and all of that information to people. because a lot of people still don't know, you know, that it's out there in the world and that there are other things that you can do. you don't have to get a 30 year mortgage on a $300 ,000 home just to live a life. There's so many options out there now. And the most recent show where we met was a sort of tiny house and ADU centric because of that vicinity in San Jose there and the regulations around ADU is changing so significantly. you know, for the more allowance of those rather than, you know, the regulation of them. It's been really, really great, I think, to open up that, you know, sort of that viewpoint and that market, I guess, if you will, for people to see, you know, if it's something that they're interested in. Yeah. And I love that the shift, and you've brought this up a couple different times towards community, Allowing people to live in community with others and the ADU piece allows families to be co -located, allows caregiving to take place between generations. It sounds like you had a close relationship with your grandmother. My grandmother is like my, you know, BFF. I wish I could be closer to her. And it is great when we can all just have a smaller living space and yet also be together and mutually supportive. And that seems to be a really important trend that tiny living is allowing. Absolutely. Yeah. I think that for so long, know, generational living was just a way of life. You know, and then the the machine, as it were, you know, decided that everybody needs their own and everyone has to consume more and, you know, take up more space and all of this, you know, and I think now, especially like post pandemic, the younger generation has really realized that like, there's nothing wrong with living with your family and being supportive of one another and having that opportunity to stay connected. It doesn't mean that you can't have your own life and your own interests just because you're living on the same property or under the same roof. I definitely think that there is a cultural shift happening again where people are realizing that this is not a bad thing and that there are, you know, really like a vast, a wide variety of options, you know, to get back into that type of living. Yeah, I often write about how it seems like that the American Dream House is very isolating. in terms of everybody having their own room with their own screens and the door that they can close. And likewise, in these communities where we have lived in our single family homes, we don't know our neighbors, we're not connected with our families, and it makes us feel very fricking lonely. And so it's great when people can start to realize that the walls that we surround ourselves with actually are structural boundaries or borders or... blockages from us, you know, from other people. So I love this. So I'm glad you brought up the ADU thing. I recorded last week's episode about how I perceived from a sort of business lens, the shift towards Intunifest, a lot of investor types. It seems like we're having conversations about how to build communities with this ADU law. So it seems like that we're moving, you know, to some degree away from the individual person saying, Hey, how can I get a bunch of reused pallets and build myself a house? now we're going towards all these different investor types coming to the table and figuring out how can I make money with this? And we see builders being sort of competitive with each other. And this is signs of growth in the industry, which means it becomes more accessible to others. What are your thoughts about kind of those changes happening? you know, I'm, I am definitely someone who doesn't balk at progress. you know, and, and, responsible procurement, is something that really comes to mind for me. I mean, I'm, you know, I built the majority of my van out of reclaimed, you know, property. wasn't something that I went to Home Depot and bought everything brand new and, you know, that kind of thing. So, I think our. Our sink was from like a repurpose store and you know, that kind of thing. So it was just, it's something that I think can be a slippery slope. And I am weary about the potential for people to be taken advantage of, you know, because this is a new sort of industry and new realm of exploration for people and then, you know, maybe putting their trust in the wrong builder. and essentially investing in something that they're gonna get no return on. So I definitely always tell people to be smart, understand what the rules and regulations are for where you wanna be, question these builders, ask them for references. Any successful builder is gonna have positive stories. They're also going to have some negative stories. So if you come across a builder or someone who's not willing to give you an example of something that didn't go right for them, they're maybe not being completely honest with you, right? Because in these types of industries, there's always hiccups, there's always hurdles. And I think somebody who's willing to be honest with you about what those hurdles are. is probably much more trustworthy than someone who says, no, I have 100 % satisfaction rate. Everybody's so happy and no problems and everything's perfect. That doesn't exist. And it's a thing to have reassurance, but it's another thing to understand the reality of what it is that you're getting into. Because I have heard some stories about some builders who haven't been able to deliver. and people have already paid for 75 % of the unit and they get nothing. You know what I mean? And not everybody has the resources to go after a company in small claims or however it needs to happen, depending on the circumstances. So I am optimistic about what it means for the industry as a whole and the varying communities that can benefit from this. we had a gentleman there who, you know, works with, houseless people in order to try to get them into a betterment situation. we've had people there who work strictly with, like, just people who want to buy their own unit and have it placed on their property. you know, some DIYers who do their own thing. Lots of, there are so many different options out there. It can be overwhelming, but I think that just the. the ability to have those options. And it's not just here, it's a tiny house, it's on wheels, this is what it is. You get two model options and that's it. It restricts so much when it's like that. So the industry having such a wide variety, I think is probably gonna keep it in the honest spectrum for quite a while. you know, even the 3D printed model, you know, that house was built out of recycled plastic bottles and the structure printed within 24 hours. You know, I've seen the concrete 3D printing, you know, happen, but to know that it's taken a step further, they're, you know, taking what they can from the environment to like... reduce everything, reuse things, I think is really, really huge because I think for a long time it was just, here's a new industry, how do we make money? Let's capitalize on it now. And I think there's a lot more responsible builders that are really looking at the industry in terms of like, what's the most efficient? What's the most cost -effective? What's gonna be easiest? to help with the housing crisis and the houseless population and getting people into affordable housing and that kind of thing. So I am an eternal optimist. I am a realist. I do understand that not everything's gonna be hunky dory all the time, which is why I have those warnings and provisos of like, know what you're getting into, educate yourself on these builders. You know, that kind of thing, but I really, really am optimistic about like the industry as a whole and what it means for like the future in this country. So awesome. I love your perspective because you've been in it so long and, you know, kind of seeing how things are going and you have that inside take from being inside of tiny fest and all of those different events that you've been at. What advice do you think is most helpful for folks that are, know, tiny curious and exploring the different options of something other than the American dream house? You know, there's a lot of advice that a lot of my podcast guests have have given over, you know, the the different episodes, but I'm curious, what do you think is most helpful at this moment for folks that are just trying to explore? you know, I think because of how far we've come already, trying it out. and then when I say that, I mean, things like, Airbnb and hip camp, even the festivals, there are a lot of opportunities to get into a unit to see and feel in real time. You know, you're not just watching a video or, you know, going on somebody's tour on YouTube. To be able to physically get into these homes and see and feel for you specifically, like how it feels, does it feel functional? Do you feel, you know, cooped up or do you feel comfortable? You know, that's why I say like Airbnb and hip camp specifically, because there's a lot of different options out there. I mean, you can stay on a yurt that's built on a deck. You can stay, there's right here in Portland, there's two different like, hotels that are multiple tiny house units in a lot. And you can stay in different types of tiny houses, different types of floor plans and setups and things like that. I really encourage people if at all, you know, and if they don't have the availability to go and stay in something like that, to find these festivals and things so that you can actually go and physically see them and tour them and get an idea for what it feels like in real life. And that, mean, everybody that I've spoken to over the years, encouraging them to just try it out, I think is the biggest first step, because you can conceptualize things, but until you actually experience it in real time and understand, like, okay, well, maybe a ladder to a loft isn't as convenient as stairs to a loft because I have to get up and pee in the middle of the night. And I don't wanna be falling off of a ladder in the middle of the night from six feet up. things that you might consider, but you might not, it's always really nice to be able to try to experience something like that before you end up with buyer's remorse or something. So I think really just try it out in any fashion that you can get your hands on. is really important to decide what it is that's really gonna work for you and what version of it works for you because there are so many now. Yeah, I think you're totally right there. And I think from a change management perspective, right? It sounds like that you are pretty. change friendly, but for people that are considering this who are more rooted and a little change resistant, or maybe their partner is a bit more change resistant, right? I'm married to a change resistant person. A lot of time of getting to experience that lifestyle, like we were coming to our tiny house a couple of times a year for many years before we were able or ready to move full time. And so I think the more times that you experience something, the more comfortable or you know, the more, you know, sort of, you know, if not, if it's not about comfort, it's just about familiarity, right? We, once we experience something multiple times, we just get, you know, more used to it. So it can be helpful to overcome that major change if you get that chance to experience on multiple occasions. Absolutely. Well, this was such, you know, such a great conversation because we kind of went a little bit in a different direction in terms of the richness of your experience. And so is there anything else that you think is really helpful or any part of your story that you didn't yet share that you want to add on? so, definitely, I, when I, so when I sold my van and decided I'm buying a tiny house, this is what I want next. And this is the next move for me. I was a little overwhelmed. and granted this was like during COVID. So like things were a little crazy. I kind of jumped on a builder because I found someone who had the sort of the external layout that I wanted and didn't have a two year wait list for building. So the reason I chose who I chose was more about like time and availability in terms of what it was that I was looking for. I definitely could have had them build me a completed unit and just move in ready. But I think after my experience building the van, I decided that it made more sense for me to build it out myself. know, have the exterior finished. That's the stuff that I don't, you know, have much preference over apart from choosing colors, which I was able to do with my builder. And the interior is what I was more concerned with is I want to know what's in the walls. I want to know where it is in the walls. I wanna understand how to prevent any damage if I have a water leak or verify that my electrical is set up the way that I need it to be. A lot of these are like RV certified when they're completed units and that's totally fine. Those are perfectly acceptable certifications, but I wanted to take it one step further for myself and just have that little bit of peace of mind of like, I know what's in the walls and where it's at. and how to protect it. And mine came as a utility trailer. So it's plated and titled as a utility trailer. If I build out everything to the RVI code, then I can have it inspected throughout the build and have it recertified as an RV and plated and insured as an RV down the road when it's completed. But... I decided that essentially it might be moved twice, maybe three times. So my personal decision was to maintain it as a utility trailer. And I carry basically a rental policy for the property that I stay on. And it's just a very high rental policy. And I have receipts and photos of, you know, the trailer itself, the tiny house, and I will continue to. document throughout the build of like what has gone into it, what the costs are, so that I can kind of back up any potential insurance claims in the future. But one of the things that, you know, I'm certainly no builder. I've never built a house. I built a van that doesn't quite count as a house. So I didn't really know things to look out for. And one of the things that I came across is after I got the tiny house back to the property where I stay, I was seeing some water coming in near the windows during heavy rainstorms. And I was like, okay, that's a little scary. I was concerned that maybe they had installed the windows upside down so like the drains weren't working or maybe the drains were plugged from like tree debris or something. And I was out there looking at it on a sunny day and I saw the sun beaming through the framework between the wall and the window. And I realized very quickly that although the windows and doors were installed, they were not weather sealed. So, you know, I purchased it as a weathered in tiny home. which means that there were doors and windows and the exterior was painted and it had a completed roof. But apparently that did not include caulking around the exterior of the windows. So, you know, they claimed that if they had built the entire thing that that would have been done. I don't know at what stage you would do that. I would assume as soon as the windows were installed, they would be sealed. So, you know, paying attention to little details, I think is probably one of the things that I've learned on my tiny house side of my journey because, you know, ultimately, if I didn't notice that or I was building right away and had immediately, you know, put utilities in the walls and insulated and sealed them up, I never would have found that or noticed it. and it would have created an extensive amount of damage and mold and could have potentially cost me the entire house in the long run because I live in Oregon and it is very wet here a large portion of the year. So I think that it's a little humbling to have experienced that so early on and realizing like, okay, like. I still have to be careful. I still have to pay attention to the small details and try to think outside the box a little bit and make sure that I kind of cover all of my bases and make sure that my investment is protected to the best of my ability. So that's probably the only piece of my journey so far that... I hadn't really delved into, but it's certainly one worth mentioning. Yeah, thanks for sharing that with us because, you know, there is, it's not the same, right, as buying, you know, a single family home in a community where, you know, they have built, you know, 100 of the same home and they're supposed to be move -in ready and. If you have a water leak, you call your homeowners policy, right? You have to be a little bit more savvy in terms of looking out for yourself. And so I appreciate you kind of sharing that part of your story with us. And hopefully that can help someone else who's, you know, working on a kit build or working with a builder. Yeah, absolutely. So Sam, share with us, if you will, anywhere where folks could follow you, your build, your story, or track you down. Yeah, sure. So my previous van build was on Instagram, at gone bananas. So it's bananas, but with a V. It is still out there, it's not maintained, but it does still exist and anybody can go and check that out. Currently, my Instagram handle is sammyj42 .83. Those are some coordinates from back east of one of my constant stays. But I have a highlights page called GEM, G -E That's my tiny house. She was bought in Gem County, Idaho. So strangely, the name was chosen before I knew that's where she came from. So just some kismet that came together for her. all of my build details and highlights and things are all gonna be shared on my Instagram as we continue forward with it. Well, thank you so much for sharing all that with us and all of your great story and wisdom, really appreciate you being here today. Thank you so much for having me. It was so much fun. Hey, thank you for taking the time to listen to Less House More Moolah. I have another free resource on my website for you, the Unconventional Values Quiz. 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