The Importance of Tiny Home Insurance with Martin Burlingame

Martin Burlingame, CEO of Strategic Insurance, joins the Less House More Moola podcast to discuss the importance of tiny home insurance. He shares the history of Strategic Insurance and how they became the go-to provider for tiny home insurance. Martin explains the different types of insurance coverage available for tiny homes, including traditional homeowners insurance, RV insurance, and dwelling policies. He also highlights the common risks faced by tiny homeowners, such as wind damage, water damage, and liability claims. Martin emphasises the importance of accurately valuing the home and disclosing all relevant information when obtaining insurance.

For full show notes and more information visit: https://bit.ly/4cTNefj

Go to www.altamericandream.com

Transcript

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It takes a brave and independent mindset to go tiny. If you are trying to figure out your tiny pivot, this podcast is here to inspire and connect you with the other unconventional, gritty, inspirational people within this community. I am Laura Lynch, your tiny house friend and host. On this show, we are always going to come back to money because as a financial planner, this is the question I hear the most. How do I make this work for me financially? Well, that's my jam, so jump in, let's go. New episodes drop every Thursday. Martin Burlingame, welcome to Less Housemore Mola podcast. Thank you so much for joining me today. This topic is so, so important. I feel like for everybody who's in the tiny living space, and I'm sure we won't cover the full gamut of everybody today, but thank you so much for joining me to talk about tiny home insurance. Well, thank you for having me. Would you please introduce yourself, your company and tell us a little bit of the history of strategic insurance? Sure. I'm Martin Berlingame with Strategic Insurance, which is owned by 180 Intermediaries. I started in the tiny home insurance world. It started out as might be eight or nine years ago at one of the tiny home jamborees that used to be hosted in Colorado Springs, Colorado. This is pre -COVID years before COVID and so now the time is just compressing. I was at the Tiny Home Jamboree with a friend of mine who asked how to ensure tiny homes because they were having huge amounts of problems doing it. I went and built a program initially with a US company, but they had limitation on the number of states they could write in. And then we eventually went to Lloyds of London, which we're ensuring with the Dale Syndicate of Lloyds of London and have been doing that for six or seven years now. Yeah, it sounds like that you all really kind of have the custom market on the tiny home space. I did a bunch of Googling trying to figure out who would be good to talk to for this episode. And you all seem to have really figured out the need there. Yeah, it's. I mean, we get a huge amount of custom built ones and we also get a lot of factory built tiny homes. We do the mobile kind and by mobile sometimes people don't move their tiny homes, but they come on a trailer. We also do permanent mounted ones that were brought in on a flat bed or disassembled from their trailer. And I have actually insured a tiny home on a sled once in the middle of the country that they moved around the property on a sled and we did insure that. The only thing we can't ensure is tree houses, but we do ensure a lot of yurts, which are not, they're not the same thing as a tiny home, but they're in the same category of auxiliary dwelling or smaller size units that people are trying to live in. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yurt is definitely something that I see a lot of where I am in Northern New Mexico and there are a lot of earth ships here in this area too. Just lots of different earth bag homes and just different ways that people are constructing homes. And when it comes to all of those different ideas, it's really hard to... In your neck of the woods, you have a lot of stuff. You have adobe brick homes, you have tire homes that have been stuccoed over, you've got geodesic domes, you've got earth built into the mountain domes. I mean, New Mexico, because of the temperature and the climate, has a huge swath of the different types of homes that are environmentally friendly, off -grid, or just designed where people have built their own homes without going down the traditional stick -built homes. And we insure all those. The tiny home program is limited by the size of the home, but we have a home for, well, not a home, we have an insurance program for the larger ones that fit into that category as well. And those are really interesting. There are some really amazing homes that people can do in your neck of the woods. That's so interesting. So how did you personally come into this really unique niche space? I started as an insurance agent in 2004 doing the traditional cars and homes and business insurance. And I eventually morphed into what's called a program administrator. So we transact directly with a consumer like you, but we can also transact with an insurance agent who's working with you. So it's a combination. So I would directly work with consumers and I'd work with insurance agents. And at the time there were five or six agents across the country that specialized in tiny homes. I think one or two of them are still writing insurance with us or still writing insurance at all. From there, once you're in a program facility, you start looking at what's coming in and what's being asked. And we had seen a few tiny homes and then obviously I was at the Jamboree. And I was kind of poo pooing the, there aren't that many tiny homes until we got to the giant Jamboree. And back then there was probably 40 ,000 people that came through that weekend in Colorado Springs with passion and dynamic interest in ensuring their tiny homes, living off grid, trying to go tiny instead of spending huge amounts of money in large homes. And it was a very passionate population. which really attracted me to trying to put a program together and building something. Yeah, definitely very passionate community and with unique needs. So tell us what are the types of insurance coverage that you offer for folks that are in tiny living? Well, I mean, in the marketplace in general, there are three types of insurance that sit out there. There's more than that, but we'll just, we'll boil it down to three types of insurance. There is a traditional homeowners insurance, which is a non moving home. There are several insurance companies that do that. And if you do move your tiny home, you have to write a new policy or cancel the first one. Not ideal for anyone that's on wheels, but there are tiny homes that are being built in factories that are more park model type size that are going to be stationary in a location and they can go that way. And you also see those in communities where people are doing short term rental kind of structure. You also have tiny homes on wheels that are moving around either infrequently or frequently. We've insured some nonprofits that did the tiny living across the country speaking and moved across back and forth 10 or 12 times in a year. And we insure those. And then the last one would be. More of an RV type insurance policy some of the companies have programs where they can write an RV if you're living in in permanently or not permanently and there's some caveats on what they write but that would be another way to ensure the tiny home and then I guess the fourth one would be Builders when they have model park models or models that they haven't sold or taking them to shows and so on they get their own kind of Trailer insurance because they're not living in the tiny home So in all of these types, are you talking about the coverage of the dwelling itself? Those are the ways that cover the dwelling. So if you write a homeowner policy, which is what we're doing, we're writing what's called a dwelling fire to policy. There's different variations, but it's a homeowner policy. It comes with a bunch of coverages that are built into it and you read the policy and it has all kinds of small coverages that are assigned to it. We also cover the contents that are inside the separate structures, which would be detached or attached outside stuff. And we see solar panels that have been rolled out and decks that people have pulled up to and carports and storage sheds and extra buildings. And then there's loss of use, which we offer a little bit on and we're looking at adding some additional loss of use. So those are. coverages in the world of insurance are called coverage A, B, C, and D. And then you have liability, which is the traditional slips and falls that can occur at your property or if you get sued. And those would be coverage L and medical, or other people call them E and F, but that would be liability and medical coverages. Within those, there's theft of the tiny home, which we've actually had one claim there, but they did find it. There's theft of equipment, contents. There's trip endorsement to allow the home to move to basically change the wording and an insurance policy to allow it to move around the country. And so there's some bells and whistles that get added in to make sure you're covered while you're traveling. Yeah, it sounds like that's a pretty robust because for me as a financial planner, I think about the liability piece the most, right? Because a tiny home, although they are certainly more and more expensive over time, Perhaps that's something that you could replace or repair or what have you. And the contents are less in a smaller space perhaps, but man, the liability, especially when you're on the road and out in the traffic across the country or what have you, liability and lawsuit is what really jumps out to me. And as far as protecting the owner of the house more than perhaps the house itself. When you're cruising down the freeway, your auto insurance is going to pick that up, right? Because it's a trailer attached to the vehicle. When it's stationary, the auto, the minute you disconnected, the auto insurance no longer has any coverage. And that's when the liability comes on the dwelling. And you see some very interesting lawsuits out there. Well, interesting might be the wrong word for using, but there are, I mean, people slip, people fall, people get injured. Things happen that we don't want to discuss to, you know, just, just horrible incidences, dog bites and stuff like that. And the lawsuits can be relatively big and they go after all your possessions. And so because we're writing a dwelling policy, you can actually, for your clients, can stack umbrellas on top of it and go to higher limits. Now your everyday single tiny home user might not need that, but there are people who own larger numbers of tiny homes and are renting them out or doing short -term rentals. And the exposure gets higher and higher and higher the more people that are in your properties. Yeah. Yes, exactly. If you are doing that from an investment perspective, it's a completely different liability risk than perhaps your primary residence. Do we see primary tiny home residences getting homestead protection? Do you know? Is that kind of outside of your? It's not really in my wheelhouse, but they're still going to get they're still exposed from the liability perspective. I mean, they can claim some of this stuff, but it's just like having your house, right? If you have a permanent fixed residency, what we did is we manuscript, which means we custom wrote the wording on a form that says instead of using the address of location listed on the declaration page, we're using wherever the tiny home is located. Because your insurance policy in a home says we're insuring home at 123 Main Street. Well, if you're in 789 wherever in a different state, a normal homeowner policy was, well, that's not what we insure. It says we insure one, two, three main. So we created a form that basically says it supersedes it wherever your home is. And so our liability covers wherever it is on the property. And it will cover the land in that area as well. It gets a little, you have to start looking at some commercial stuff if you're sitting on 5 ,000 acres that you've bought. But if you've got, you know, five, 10, 12 acres, and your home's on it, it extends out because it's the address of where you're located. And we have had people have to use latitude and longitude for their tiny homes, which gets a little bit more complicated when you put the address line, because you've got eight and eight digits to point where the home is. Yeah, that's so interesting, especially for people that are traveling or at least not permanently fixed for the long term and their home is. you know, moving between sort of semi-permanent placements, which I know doesn't happen as much with tiny homes, but certainly with RVs, for example, and schoolies, all of those folks are really moving around a lot. And so making sure that they have some, you know, protection while on the road, I think is... Yes. Well, schoolies are a different class of business. We had a program for schoolies. We just couldn't get it up and running with enough of them in there. You have to believe in insurance as a whole, as a group to make sure that there's enough volume going into a program. And Schooly is really an auto insurance policy with a modified like auto physical damage policy attached around it. And there's some really cool Schooly's out there. I mean, I'm gonna have to say I've seen some, I've also seen some RV trailers that are, well outside of the price point of what most people could ever afford. So showing up to tailgates and so on, you know, the huge thing being pulled in by a freight liner. I know it, I know. It's definitely interesting to see the full spectrum of, I guess, just all the different types of people that can be in van life or in school year or in RV. Like there are, you know, budget ways to do it and then there are engineer high dollar ways to do it. So it's really interesting. I mean, so when I started, I thought it was, I don't know what my perception was going to be of who I was going to ensure, but what I found quickly, it was a lot of you And let's ask more Mola, we hear so many stories of people living unconventional lives. Each of them is literally building their all -American dream. Are you tired of putting your dreams on hold because of money? Well, let's fix it. I have a two -part offering that is here to help you. First, I'm going to give you access to my financial freedom calculator so that you'll understand your numbers and have a tangible starting point. This is free. And then second, we'll book a session to figure out your finances so that you can live your alt -American dream as soon as possible. This is paid. Why am I giving you something for free? Because I'm passionate about empowering people to choose an unconventional path. So let's work together to figure out money so that you will know that you've officially taken action on your plans. This offering is for you if you're unsure of your cost of living or how much savings you might need. You don't know what money move to make next. You dream of an unconventional life built on your terms. You're seeking a permanent solution and not a one -time motivational boost. You wanna learn about money from someone who shares your interest and breaking away from the norm. So what do you think? Are you tired of starting sentences with someday when I... then go to allamericandream .com and get the financial freedom calculator. There are a lot of young people, couples usually, that are trying to start their life as a married couple or living together couple and they can't afford a massive house somewhere. But I also found a huge number of people chasing their grandkids around the country and who were downsizing. Like just tired of the big house and the big maintenance and they would be three months in wherever and then three months in this place. And then they would go home for a bit to wherever they were from and see friends. And it was very interesting to see the dynamics of that traveling generation, because it was generational for those. Obviously with grandkids, they're at a different age group than somebody just married out of school. I mean, they're at the opposite ends of the spectrums. Yeah, well, it used to be that all the kids came to the grandparents, but now the kids are all spread out and they're making their own family. So the grandparents have to go, you know, where the kids are and they can't afford to travel. I mean, it's crazy. The cost structure. And I guess the grandparents, if you've got a tiny home, can just hook it up and wheel it out and pull it up and spend some time in the driveway. And then, you know, at some point when you're no longer wanted, you can hook it back up and move on. Yeah. Yeah, I love I love all the applications. So let's talk a little bit about risks. We've already kind of touched on this a little bit. Let's sort of bifurcate the traveling nomadic folks from the stationary folks. Like what are the risks that you're particularly tackling for those two different buckets of people? Well, there's common risks across the stuff and and I can go through what what the most common claims we have. are larger claims are wind related, wind tornado related. So we've had some tornado hits, we've had some hurricane pushes, we've had hail and that kind of stuff going there. So that's common to all of them. We do allow you to move the house and one of the advantages to being on wheels is if there's really a category five coming, you can get your home on the road and get it out of there because most homes aren't going to survive. On the stationary side, you see potentially more liability claims just because they tend to be more established within a particular area and have a larger friend group and people coming back and forth where things can happen. On the traveling side, we see damage to the tiny home as they're backing it in and out because they don't know what they're doing or whoever they hired doesn't do it right. And we see tipping. We did have one total loss tipping claim and it fell off of the overpass onto the road below. I mean, it got hit with the wind and went over the side. And we modified our policy form at that time to offer some loss of use during that period because this person was in the middle of nowhere when it happened and getting hotel accommodations and hiring to move your tiny home off of the road was very traumatic. So we modified the policy. We've never had another one since then, but it was like pretty crazy what happened. Luckily, nobody was underneath, right? Because I mean, if your tiny home went off and somebody had been driving below, it would have been really catastrophic. Yes. Wow. I'm just imagining what that would be like. I mean, they'd have to bring in a crane in order to pick that thing up off the road, right? Well, the car towing, it was the wrong size. So it was chiming. It got hit with huge gust of wind. I mean, you know, 80, 90, 100 mile an hour wind. And I mean, because of the setup of the tiny home, it has a higher vertical than, you know, regular teardrop type Taylor. And it just hit it perfectly. And I must have just been when it was shimming in one direction and just went off the side. Luckily, the driver had ripped the hitch off the car, which is a good thing because otherwise the car would have followed it. Yes. And then the claim we see for everything is water. There's always some water claims. One of the biggest things we see is lack of insulation or people are not insulating correctly. If the builder does it, we always recommend to go back against the builder. I mean, you have thinner walls, but if you're using traditional two by four construction, your wall width is the same as everyone else's and it needs to be insulated. Right. You can't not insulate your tiny home. which we have seen some claims are. I mean, I guess you could not insulate it if you lived only on the coast in the South somewhere where the temperatures don't drop that much. But we recommend if you're gonna have running water in the place to make sure it's insulated and all your spigots and pipes and cables and water conduits are all insulated. Yes, yes, definitely getting water from your... water supply into the tiny house and keeping it insulated through that. It's just like a mobile home, right? You have to do that appropriate insulation. Well, it's just like your house, right? I mean, you know, if you have a spigot outside and you don't insulate it and it freezes, it's, I mean, when it ruptures, it's a huge amount of damage. Yeah, for sure. So I'm glad you bring up the builders and, you know, build standards. Are there, do you all require any particular certifications or build standards in order to? right policies? Which build standard you want to use? Just a couple. Just a couple of them out there. Now we'll ensure all of them. I mean, understand if you build your own tiny home, you can't claim construction defect, right? I mean, you're the contractor. So if the roof caves in, you can't sue the roofer because you're the roofer. So you can't sue yourself. So I always remind people of that, you know, well, happens if it falls apart? Well, you should have done a better job of putting it together at that point. If you use a builder and something goes wrong, you have the ability to go back against the builder. Obviously, you want to make sure the builder's got insurance. If you use an inspection company, there's a couple of them out there that do. There's two or three out there that do them. I know three of them, but we won't list them. There could be more. Just make sure that they give you all the information. and that you have a copy of all that stuff stored on the cloud in case there's a problem so you can pull it up. I also always recommend you take pictures of the interior of your tiny home every once in a while. Or if you buy anything, like I don't know, you buy some crazy flat screen TV to put in your tiny home, make sure you have proof of purchase and a picture of it in the home so that if it gets stolen, you have proof that you had this event there. But we insure all of them. We do a lot of self -builds. We do a lot of builders. It all depends on where it comes from and where the lead comes from. Yeah. So when we were talking about the different, you know, insurance types and kind of those different risks, you are, it sounds like just to reiterate, protecting against theft, protecting against damage, protecting against liability, protecting against, you know, weather related things, just like any other homeowner's policy would. Correct. We're writing, we're not writing a homeowner, we're writing a dwelling policy. There's a nuance between the two in the insurance world, but for the average consumer, a dwelling policy and a homeowner policy do the same structure. So we cover a bunch of named perils, wind and hail are in there. We do have a caveat on distance to coast. We have a 75 mile distance. We don't offer wind inside of that. Initially in the program, we saw too many people putting their homes on barrier islands and so on. And there's just not enough protection, even if you stake it down to protect yourself against gale force tornado winds. Obviously by wind thing, I don't mean the West coast, right? There's no, no issue in California, Oregon and Washington, but you know, the Gulf is and Florida, just like you deal with, with your place down there. It's just somewhat crazy what the wind rates are and what happens down there. Yes. So I'm glad that you mentioned that before we started recording, you and I were talking about the house that I'm selling in Florida and the challenges with homeowners insurance there. Have you seen similar crazy rate increases in the policies that you're writing for tiny houses? Not with our programs. In fact, I was just talking to Lloyd's people and I think we've had a 3 % rate increase. cost of inflation. And I think that's completely attributed to the values of the homes going up as well, right? Cause the cost of construction has gone up. We've tried to maintain the program has been profitable for the insurance company. And so what we've tried to do is make sure that we're not trying to find a way to gouge more money out of people. So our rates have been steady with small increases where you would see an increase if we had a lot of push for us particular So we're getting a lot of push by the short -term rental people to cover loss of use place burns down They've lost income. Well, if we add that on the policy the premium is going to go up because we've added an extra coverage It doesn't mean our rates gone up as a base rate It's just we're offering more if you take your tiny home from 50 ,000 to 70 ,000 the price goes up Doesn't mean the insurance price has gone up. The actual cost has gone up just because you have more coverage So we've maintained it. I think we took maybe 4 % this year and nothing the year before and two or three the year. So we've been pretty consistent on Triino. Now we've seen some big differences in some of our competitors and we just let people make their own decisions. Yeah. Well, it's good, you know, because as with all areas of tiny living, people are making choices because they don't want to spend so much of their paycheck on their housing. And so you know, homeowners insurance or coverage of your dwelling and all of the risks associated with that are, you know, there are costs that you bear as long as you own the home. It's not like, you know, once you pay it off, you're not, you're done paying for this cost. And so to have some sort of good level expectation of what that cost is going to be is really helpful to people. Well, I mean, you're a financial planner. So, I mean, if somebody pays the house off completely and has plenty of assets, I guess you don't need to insure the structure. It's called self -insurance and people do it all the time. But the liability side is a big hit if you get sued. And if you have the assets to pay the house off and not worry about losing the value of the house, you probably have enough assets that you need to increase your liability protection because if somebody sues, they're going to go for deeper pockets. So we always recommend you at least get liability. And we're like, it's not very expensive as a percentage of the value of the house. I mean, I think we're just under about a percent. is a good number to look at. That's worth protecting the house. Yeah, and protecting your savings. Yes. Awesome. So is there anything else that listeners need to know about ensuring a tiny home that, you know, like they should, you know, prepare in advance before making a call to you all or just important key things for people to know? 75 miles away from the coast of Florida. I bring that one up all the time because it's in the policy. and in Lava Zone 1 and 2 in Hawaii if you have your tiny home there. Because we've actually had some homes on the Big Island near volcanic activity. So what would I say to do? The first thing is make sure you know what the house is worth. Right? I mean so when you when you look to get an insurance quote make sure you know how much you spent on it. And that's or how much it costs to rebuild if you got a really good deal or built it yourself. The second thing is don't misrepresent what you have to an insurance company to try to get a cheaper rate. That's great for the cheaper rate and then when you have a claim, it just gives them the ability to say they don't want to pay for it. Now, are they going to pay for a small claim? Most likely. But if you have a real claim and you told them you were A and you really are B, they can just say you misrepresented and not pay it. And that's where things get very complicated. And that's where financial planners always say, make sure you do the right thing, because that can be a very expensive mistake. So, you know, disclose it to your insurance agent. If you're doing it over the phone with an insurance company, disclose what you have, what you're doing, if you're using it part time, if you're short renting, if you're using it as a hunting lodge, if you're whatever, if it's on a sled, if it's on wheels, just disclose it all. and make sure if you're dealing with somebody and you're going back and forth in the email, you list it all out in the email and explain what you have and send it and keep a copy of that. So if there's ever a problem in the future, you can say, well, look, I told you I did A, B and C. Why am I not sure insured for A, B and C? I'm glad that you mentioned earlier the, if you built it yourself. How does a person figure out or document the costs for a self -built like this tiny house that I'm sitting in was self -built, right? We built this back in 2017. We would have to go through and create a full list of materials, I guess, and kind of try to, I mean, what do you think about coming up with it? You can estimate it. You can estimate the value. I mean, we're not going to hold anyone's feet to the fire on the value of the tiny home. Where we have issues is if you spent $300,000 and you insured for $5 ,000. I mean, there's a huge problem because the quality of all the stuff. I would take a video of the tiny house, record it on the cloud. So take it with your phone, have it upload to wherever cloud storage you have. And I mean, your insurance policy is going to replace it to cost up to the value you insured it. So you need to look at it. Okay. 2017 inflation has been 15, 20 % or more. We don't want to talk about that. That steers this conversation in a direction we don't want to go. But you know, okay, so I spent $10 ,000 six, seven years ago. It's probably worth $15 ,000 now. And then you just put that on there and look at it and go from there. Gotcha. So if listeners are sitting in their tiny house right now going, you know, I hadn't really thought about the liability piece or because I built it myself or paid for it. I hadn't really thought about the importance of insuring it. How do they get in touch with you and your team to start exploring getting some coverage? Well, so the best way is to go online because you can actually rate up your tiny home and get a price right there. And then you can play around with the information if you want to change the different coverages. So it's www .MyStrategicInsurance .com. And I'll send you the hyperlink as well. You click it in click tiny homes Get insurance and you can we have people do all kinds of stuff But think through what you have right if you have deployed solar panels outside of the home or if you put them on the house You need to you know, hey, I've got because solar panels are expensive or I've got a separate Structure off the premise. Make sure you look at what you have on there and put it in there Yeah, awesome Yeah, I think there, you know, a lot of people that are permanently placed, right, are doing all kinds of, you know, other things. I know we've got a shop building and we're going to build a studio greenhouse building. And so there's a lot of other structures that are going to be added to our, you know, tiny house living setup and all of that's outside of a normal, you know, normal residential house. And you're allowed to go cover all that because it's at that location. Now, if you have another location, make sure you disclose it, because we can extend liability to another location. It costs more money, obviously, because you have an extra location. And just make sure if you have acreage or if you put in all the kind of stuff, because sometimes land, rural land doesn't have a physical address. So while our tiny homes cover you everywhere, if you're actually putting it permanently in a rural land area, put the rural land definition, description, however it shows up on the assessor in there so that we can make sure you're covered for your acreage under the liability portion. Yeah, awesome. I mean, I can speak for myself and other people that are in this space. It's so good to know that this is one part of the tiny home living that maybe isn't quite as complicated because there are people like you that are. doing something in this space. We wish there were lenders, right? Specifically out there helping people get into tiny houses. Once you're there, you can get insurance, which is great. but I'm so, we're so grateful. I guess I speak for listeners. I say, I'm so grateful that you're there and that you all have figured out a way to kind of cover all the unique setups. We have over 5 ,000 tiny homes insured and in every state. Actually, we have some in Alaska and some in Hawaii. I don't know if they're all in every state at any one time because people move, but we've actually insured in every single state, people have had a tiny home, which is pretty impressive considering, well, and because we have some in DC as well. So, yep, we've all 50 plus the District of Columbia. We're not in Puerto Rico and we do cover the home. We can go from Canada. from Alaska to the US. While it's mobile, it would be covered, but not if you're domiciled in Canada. We don't have a program in Canada. We looked at it and it just got so complicated with Canadian law. Yeah. Awesome. Well, Martin, thank you so much for being on the podcast today and kind of talking me through this insurance piece because it's super important to me and the people that I'm working with and certainly listeners. So thanks for your time. Well, thank you so much for having me on and have a wonderful day. Hey, thank you for taking the time to listen to Less House More Moolah. I have another free resource on my website for you, the Unconventional Values Quiz. In just two minutes, you can pinpoint your style of freedom seeker, security guardian, adventure enthusiast, or community builder. Check it out at thetinyhouseadvisor .com. And one more thing, podcasts don't have algorithms like social media does. They only grow by word of mouth and reviews. If this podcast is helpful to you, would you please post a review on your podcast app and tell a friend who is trying to live a values -based life? It would totally make my day.