The Rise of the Tiny House Movement in Australia with Tim Dean

Tim Dean, an architect and designer, shares his journey from residential sustainability to the tiny house and small housing market in Australia. He discusses the cultural and economic landscape that has led to an increased interest in alternative residential options, such as tiny houses. Tim explains his role as a designer and connector in the tiny house industry, working with builders and individuals to create custom solutions. He also highlights the popularity of tiny houses for various purposes, including affordable housing, independent living, and income generation through Airbnb rentals.

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Transcript

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It takes a brave and independent mindset to go tiny. If you are trying to figure out your tiny pivot, this podcast is here to inspire and connect you with the other unconventional, gritty, inspirational people within this community. I am Laura Lynch, your tiny house friend and host. On this show, we are always going to come back to money because as a financial planner, this is the question I hear the most. How do I make this work for me financially? Well, that's my jam, so jump in, let's go. New episodes drop every Thursday. Well, Tim Dean, welcome to Les House Bormola podcast. I'm super excited to have this conversation with you today. You and I connected through Till at Tiny Easy. He's like, here are some great people you need to talk to and you're doing some fantastic work and some unique ideas down in Australia. So I'm super excited for you to share. all of your story of coming to Tiny and what you're doing now. So please introduce yourself to the audience and share where you're recording from. Thanks Laura. Yes, Tim Dean. I'm talking to you from the Dandenong Mountains or Hills. They're about, they're almost an outer suburb of Melbourne, east of Melbourne. Chilly winter's day here, all the leaves are turning. This is a property that belongs to my brother about 14 acres, he's been here for ages and I'm inside a 12 meter bus conversion that's been on again off again project for about three years now which is typical of buses and boats and all the rest of it but it's they're complicated projects but it's also when you can get to it because I've been juggling lots of other stuff like designing tiny houses. It's almost there so yeah that's where we are. Yeah, it looks lovely. And I love the fact that you kind of keep the captain's chairs in the, in the bus, right? So you get to work from that nice cushy chair, whereas I'm sitting on a hard wood chair in my tiny house. Well, the bus has been a bit of an evolving story. It began as a way to experiment with small space design project, cause I really liked kind of thinking and then making things. And ultimately for finishes off the way it's headed then a bit of a showcase. But it's actually been terrific for learning and talking about ideas because I get a bit obsessed and design something and then I can talk about it. And I'm not designing many buses and I'm not selling buses but they're the same kind of dimensions as a tiny house, as a container house, as what we call granny flats, you guys call ADUs. similar problems, similar solutions. So I've been to rig for that. But this particular works, there's very little about this bus that is the original vehicle. It was a Japanese bus, it was a hotel bus and the guy here imported it. It was an unfinished project when I bought it, which is probably the way to get a bus if it's been done right. So in fact this chair was not original. The side entry would have been here. Because as you can see there's quite a raised level because there's huge luggage bins underneath which is where all the batteries and composting toilet and storage and slide -out kitchen all that sort of stuff is now. And so that would have just all been all seating, glass all the way around as a tour coach. And I only recently decided to make this the work area. I should... You can't really see it, but I've got this table that slides in and out and I've got you on the laptop here on a laptop holder suspended and a big monitor over here. So it's a fabulous little space and there's a split system above me that's giving me a bit of heat. So it's very comfortable on the driver's chairs just to my right. But originally the workstation was going to be up above popping out in front of the sofa, but then I figured it's nice not to have to pack it up. And I can just come down here anytime and it's space that would otherwise not be utilized whenever you're parked. And at night there's a bed above me that drops down over it, just above the level of the monitor. This, it sits on the shelf here. There's one on either side. So it drops down behind and rolls forward over it. So again, utilizing this space that would not be useful otherwise to your park. And it's lovely because there's glass all the way around. So it's like being in a giant window seat on a queen size bed. Yeah, beautiful. Yeah, my workspace is here at the end of the tiny house, like right, I have my TV right above me, which I get to use as a second monitor, which basically pushes everybody out. Like you can't, I don't have a, like a private space or a separate space. And so. You know, ultimately this isn't a good long -term solution. It's just working for right now, but it is nice to be able to see all of our, you know, design behind too. It was just kind of fun for the podcast. I didn't know until we moved into the tiny house, full time, just this week, how what a great job we did actually with creating a lot of, a lot of space for all the things. And so when I packed two houses into one tiny house, It turns out that we really did a good job of creating spaces for all the things that we need. So it's really fun to kind of reflect on our previous design. And you've really moved in your whole story from residential sustainability and that focus and now kind of come into the tiny and small market. So tell us the story of the work that you've done in the past and kind of how you've migrated into this smaller space. sure I'll try to keep it really brief. But yeah, I graduated in architecture ages ago and I initially worked with a small local architect. He was quite an activist, he was a local councillor and did a lot of work in sustainable housing with a big clientele of owner builders. So you had to think a lot about the kinds of materials and what they could build themselves. But it was quite creative. We were doing these box beams which people could manufacture and set a plywood and timber but they'd be curved and could span long distance to draw them cheaply and then use light gauge tin that could follow that curve so no ridges and gutters and interesting voltage shaped roofs. So it was interesting work, a lot of mud brick and rammed earth and conventional construction as well. But that introduced me to timber and I've always liked kind of making things and This was in a town called Geelong that's about 100 kilometers from Melbourne around on the same bay. And it was once, Melbourne and Geelong once vied for equal kind of who was going to be the biggest city back in the early days. And Geelong was quite a port for, largely for wool because it was inland from Victoria and Melbourne and Geelong, sorry, there's a lot of farming. Gold of course, but also wool. And there are all these lovely wool stores. big buildings like warehouses that built with gorgeous big foot -by -foot posts. A lot of it American Oregon or Douglas Fir and heaps and heaps of local Australian timbers. And some of those were being demolished unfortunately and they decided to pull down a huge pier that extended out into Correio Bay. It was all made out of amazing, massive, durable, huge Aussie timbers. And back to This is back in the mid 90s. And it wasn't valued that the way that industry has changed or our appreciation of timber has changed and become scarce is so rapid because now at a cost of fortune, it's difficult to get. So anyway, they were just getting rid of it. So I go down in my ancient old tray truck with a tandem trailer and get this mountain of timber in exchange for a slab of beer and drive it down out of town to a friend in an old boat who of Brickworks, which was I think he was second or third generation, he must have been in his 60s or 70s. And he would cut timber on the property to fire up a kiln, get clay out of his land, he'd extrude it into bricks, stack them all in this kiln, pile the wood up around the outside to get the heat up until the oil burners could work and then he'd fire them that way and then unhack and stack them and so on. Anyway he had a mill out the front of his property that he drove off his tractor. and he'd help me cut this timber up, which was fantastic and making furniture. So it sounds all very romantic, but it was good fun. It was a great way to learn about working with this stuff. And that ended up being the beginning of a 12 year business that did morph into much more contemporary design, shop fit outs, kitchens, a lot of other materials. And this isn't the short version, is it? Okay, so that sold that business. We lived in the Blue Mountains for a while in the middle of the land in Sydney just focusing on design a bit more furniture making and so on. My wife had worked, she's a teacher, she'd worked overseas in Saudi, Brunei and Vietnam and for various reasons. Blue Mountains is absolutely gorgeous. We thought this is the forever home but... unless you're involved in a support business for the local communities or tourism, there's not a lot of work. So anyway, we decided well out, we had a daughter, very young, that we would go overseas and work for a while and ended up in Dubai. And I shifted into retail design, surprisingly Dubai, you know, and that was, it was real work. We, in fact, we had about a year in Bahrain and then Dubai, and I worked for a large shopping mall developer. They designed built malls and then operated them. Then moved across and worked for a consultant, in fact Australian based, that did retail design. And then one of their clients asked me to join them and finish off the project that had been designed. That was another three or four years. Around about then, we're now 2013, I decided that I wanted to return to self-employment. It just suited me better. On Let's Has More Mola, we hear so many stories of people living unconventional lives. Each of them is literally building their all -American dream. Are you tired of putting your dreams on hold because of money? Well, let's fix it. I have a two -part offering that is here to help you. First, I'm gonna give you access to my financial freedom calculator so that you'll understand your numbers and have a tangible starting point. This is free. And then second, we'll book a session to figure out your finances so that you can live your alt -American dream as soon as possible. This is paid. Why am I giving you something for free? Because I'm passionate about empowering people to choose an unconventional path. So let's work together to figure out money so that you will know that you've officially taken action on your plans. This offering is for you if you're unsure of your cost of living or how much savings you might need. You don't know what money move to make next. You dream of an unconventional life built on your terms. You're seeking a permanent solution and not a one -time motivational boost. You want to learn about money from someone who shares your interest and breaking away from the norm. So what do you think? Are you tired of starting sentences with someday when I then go to all American dream .com and get the financial freedom calculator. enough clients from the people I've worked with to do that. So I started and then the work diversified again because I wasn't just an employer that focused on retail. During that period or at that time we purchased a property in Sri Lanka. Now the whole story. And that led to doing some boutique hospitality projects, a couple of little hotels. project of our own that we still have which is a couple of houses that we rent out on Airbnb and some housing projects as well. And that was really lovely. Dubai, Sri Lanka, they're only a four-hour flight apart and I could spend time in each. Then, you know, challenges of working with local contractors and the way they do things and also these materials available. Then the last chapter in Dubai was the sustainable city. which is a fabulous project. It's about, say, 15 kilometers inland, right on the edge of the desert. In fact, there's all these cycling tracks that go out through the desert, hundreds, about 150 kilometers of tracks and always being expanded. And we could get to them, little crew from the sustainable city and go cycling through the dunes, which you do early in the morning if it gets too hot. And they're just dedicated single track paved roads. June, see the sunrise and then have a coffee at a cafe that's out there and head home. And I worked for the developer of the sustainable city. They had offices within it. The sustainable city is, if anyone's interested, is worth looking up. You'll find it the sustainable city Dubai or something like that. There's 500 villas, apartments, mixed -use restaurants, a few other shops, a school. project that I worked on which started life as a hotel. It didn't get finished because with the coming of the World Expo, there were so many hotels being built and the owners decided this is probably not going to be that profitable. And I'm telling you this because it became a really interesting project. One of the owners or directors of the whole company had a son with I think autism and Anyway, they did the research and they decided to turn this hotel into a huge support facility, residential facility for people, generally younger people with autism. So we had to convert this half built hotel with all its restaurants and stuff into a facility for that. Anyway, COVID came along. We were just finished off a project which was a playground and animal sanctuary built entirely out of recycled because the developers were contractors as well. So there's all these playground materials to choose from and that was fantastic project. Probably one of the most satisfying because we got to build it, design it, build it using all this material and then see it become the main social hub of the whole community. So that was terrific. It was only about a minute from around the corner from the villa we were living. We had a plan to return to Australia about another two years which would involve building up things self -employed again, design work in Dubai, Sri Lanka and Australia and this idea of being able to move around between them. And the pandemic kind of put an end to that because it decimated travel and the US industry, which is we would have been on the other side of the world. And we thought we'd stay in Dubai and sort of ride it out. And then I lost my job and you do not want to be in Dubai. It's... you're working living there but you don't have to buy living expenses. My wife, she was working as the education officer for the sustainable city. So we made a very fast decision to return. Probably 48 hours from the decision that we have to go to being back. We had five rescue pets, you know, all sorts of pressures and decisions. Somehow we got through it and landed back in Australia. I came to Melbourne where I had a mother that was, she turned 91 a couple of months after that and the child went up to Brisbane where our daughter was and our family and I landed in the most stringent extended lockdown in the world. So I then spent eight months more or less as my mother's butler, walked through the university to this fabulous Italian shopping area, buy food, go back, cook, decide what to do next and that was when looking what was going on and the restrictions on travel. Australians were starting to travel within their country. People were looking for alternatives. We didn't know how long it was going to last. And the signs were all there. Both culturally, people were happier to live in smaller places. That tiny houses were going to become a bigger thing. It had already become much more established in the US. We were seeing shows and podcasts and of people doing this which did create a few unrealistic expectations in Australia because we have smaller size restrictions on tiny house on wheels and the opportunity to just go park in them and live in them was not as abundant. However it was it would definitely look like it was going to be a thing. I have to say tiny house on wheels were not where I started, I was looking for some sort of business that would enable me to travel, to move around. We didn't know where we were going to settle. We don't have a property in Australia, and everyone in Sri Lanka, which we couldn't really live in. I'd always had an interest in vintage caravans or what you call trailers, which are not that common. There's some sort of cool old school ones in Australia, which were considered very kind of not cool and daggy not so long ago. They're becoming sort of having a bit of a resurgence now and they're getting done up and so on. But I've always been quite fond of Airstreams and similar, which are not that common here at all. They're difficult to import. They don't comply exactly with our road rules. So I did a bit of research on that. I did have one before we went overseas. Ended up buying one. Australian version only 12 foot long very cute little boxy thing all aluminium called a carapac they used to be tons of them in Australia They're like Australia's sort of poor cousin answered to his dreams and I did yeah, I did a detailed design for it and it I can't remember how but it came to the attention of Chloe who is a woman here that imports air streams. She has a partner I think that's placed in America and she's doing quite well with that and she showed the drawings to a client hers and Lexi and I was designed for an airstream conversion, an early 70s model. And then, you know, it just led to other things and I wasn't particularly focused on any particular type of building. I'd done a container house recently for my brother who's actually only recently finished it, but it's a complete off -grid thing made out of four 20 -foot containers, two stacked on top of each way like a plus sign if you look from above. So they could give you these interesting cantilevers and balconies and underhangs. And it was more about the sides of the space because architecture takes a long time. Buildings take, you know, for a full blown elaborate custom residential house or boutique hotel or whatever. It's a very long period from the idea through the process of design, through construction and final completion, it can take a long time. So I wanted something that was more manageable. that wasn't so tied up in the red tape of approvals and council regulations and the liability and having to be very careful about that. Particularly as I didn't know where we would be, you know, in six months, 12 months, wouldn't have been that responsible to take on a very time-consuming project. So that ticked all the boxes. And then as I was getting to all that and getting excited about it, we decided, well, we could travel in one. We kind of, we've got... properties within the family sort of dotted up the East Coast where we could park something. And we thought, well, we're not going to be in a 12 -foot caravan. So I sold that and ended up going the opposite and buying this. And with all those different ideas in mind that it was a project, I really want to make something, test out all these ideas, make something that could be hopefully a showcase of different ways of using space and what can be done. I'm not interested, well interest is the wrong word, but I'm not in a position to design and build buses or even tiny homes for people because again, just it locks you into one place and so on. So I want to focus on design, but it's still a great way to not have a client do what you like and then, to show the ideas. And that's, that's been a great, it has, it's already, credit work. Can I just show people? So there you go. That's the story. Yeah. It sounds like. It sounds like you've been able to really create some custom applications for and get to sort of explore all of the different tiny sort of platforms that are out there and how much fun to not be sort of in that production cycle of creating the same thing over and over again, but instead be able to be really creative with different platforms, container homes and. and campers and buses and all of the things. Tell us a little bit more about the tiny home movement and residential preferences in Australia. It sounds like that there's definitely a need for what you're doing and people are doing some unique things. What's happening in the cultural landscape, what's happening in the economic landscape that's causing people to look at. you know, alternative residential options. Sure. What's happened very quickly in the last few years is there's been a rapid increase in property prices and construction costs. A lot of that's stemming from COVID, but of course COVID is really now something we all live with. We're having a little bit of a resurgence here at the moment, but people aren't treating it. We're not having lockdowns and the world's just learned to cope. But during COVID, prices went up and they don't show any sign of returning to where they were. We've got a shortage of skills and just various other things that are putting pressure on costs of land and housing. So as a result, there's homelessness, there's people struggling to find ways to get their first home, you know, younger people. And also, you know, the problem of aging and what do you move into and how do you deal with that? For all those reasons and you know, the nice things, the kind of romantic things about tiny hours and all the rest of it. There's been a definite cultural shift. It's now, it's not sort of like a last resort or, okay, you know, I can't afford a proper house, I'll have a small house. It's now, It's almost something that's desirable, that's aspirational for people. So we're seeing lifestyle programs and it's familiar. And because of that, the industry has really taken off. I'm now going, there's a company that put on Tiny Home Exposed. Bay is one of the main, Bay Barrett kind of leads that along with Lance. couple and they're just, they're dynamic, they're really strong. I mean it's their business of course to promote the tiny home industry but they go above and beyond, they're real advocates for that and they're putting on these expos around the country every one or two months to fit in. The locations are various, they experiment and work it out and I'm going along and talking about design. They have a bit of a speakers sort of schedule through the three -day events and there's all sorts of stuff from composting toilets to solar to council regulations and approvals and so on. And that's been a kind of do and don't know why I'm doing it. You know, it's sort of it's just it's good to jump in and as in that's how I met Till who then is now we're sitting here. So that's what the sorts of things that happen. You don't really know exactly where it's going to go. But if you jump in and get involved, it happens. So. I'm seeing a lot of different kinds of people coming to these shows as well as just what I do and whoever calls up. And there's as many, it's a new housing type. It's not just a tiny house for people that can't afford a conventional house, but they want all their nice things. So if they reduce the footprint, they can still have a lovely kitchen and appliances and whatever. Just not as much space. It's not just that at all. There's... Definitely people who are just looking for a way to get some independence, some sheltered housing. Right through to people who are investors, they've got land, they want to create income from it, whether it's Airbnb or full -time rental, or people have stunning properties and well, we don't need to put a great big house there or the potato access for contractors, or we don't want to spoil it with a huge thing. So they'll get a really lovely place and, and site it just so. lovely decks around it. And we're now starting to see, you know, as any young industry grows and develops, as it becomes more viable, other people get interested. So commercial operators, you know, we're getting, seeing quite a bit of interest from companies that own sites for holiday. And it's an alternative way of creating more accommodation or utilizing land to get more income from it. example there's a project they've had a look at that's an older... it's a pub really, you know, Aussie pub. That's one of these big sites. They've also got a separate bottle shop drive -through thing and a ton of car parking which was probably an important requirement of getting approval back in the day. These older sites, they're in great locations. So there's water just across the road, a bit of a beach. figured out they could convert some of that parking by using a collection of little tiny houses into really cool accommodation whether it's for working sort of fly -in fly -out people or holidaymakers. So that sort of thing's happening all around the place. So yeah, overall it's become more culturally acceptable and more popular. Yeah. So who are your... Who are you working for right now? You're working for yourself, but what are some of the projects that you have on the horizon that you're most excited about? I'm really busy with a variety of things. There are some just straight working for individuals, just design them a tiny house. some owner builders in which it takes a very different approach, you know, what their skills, how they're trying to save money, if that's what they're trying to do, accessing materials. They end up with a much more unique sort of a project because it's all about them and their passion and so on. And also for others, what I figured out pretty early on is that you can't act like a conventional consultant, I don't think, in this space. you need to be able to offer the full solution, design and supply, design and build. One of the first, actually I really got into doing tiny house on wheels when a company in Queensland called Bretts, they've been around for over a hundred years. They supply, they're called business of supply and building materials and products to builders, so business to business or to trade. And they've been, They manufacture games, trust the doors and windows as well as supply all kinds of hardware materials and they were manufacturing prefabricated houses. And so it was a bit of a no brainer for them to get into doing tiny houses. So that was where I started designing their products. They've had a bit of a change in direction, decided to focus on their core business of trading. And I've taken over that business kind of with a colleague of mine, a friend up in Brisbane. So that I don't want to manufacture. So what I'm doing instead is I've got great relationships with a number of tiny house builders up and down the coast between New South Wales and Queensland. And that enables me to meet someone, learn their brief, which is something you have to become very skilled at as a professional designer of anything. If you don't understand what the client needs, what they're... what's going to solve their problems, how can you design a solution. So learn from the client exactly what they need, style, taste, site, location, application and pair that up either with a product that's already there that a builder's building. That's going to be the quickest and most cost -efficient solution. Not the sexiest in terms of design because there's not a lot to do but still there's a responsibility to come up with the best solution. or a variation on that because I know how these guys build and what they do. I could choose the best one and design variations that best fit the way they build. So therefore, quick, cost efficient and that they're willing to do it because a lot of builders don't want to do custom design because it's a headache. It's a one -off, a lot of mucking around and research and experimentation and you can't really charge that much more. People get a bit shocked by the price and labor is very expensive. Or for custom design, again, I can find and know the builder that might do the custom design from the outset. So we can have them get their input and good ideas, how they're going to build it, keep it on track, talk about budget through the process. So there isn't some surprise at the end. So that's a very different approach to say, house design or anything that's building where you would get a consultant to design a full set of drawings and then go to tender. And from that bunch of prices and process eventually select someone if the price doesn't blow out like crazy. That's just not going to work for someone who wants a tiny house. They'll be thinking, well, I spend several thousand dollars on a consultant. I just want someone to live. And then what do I do with these drawings? I don't know tiny house builders. So it's helping them through the entire process. And it doesn't actually cost anymore because builders are more than willing to allow a commission or an amount within their price that they advertise because it's marketing, it's a sale. So it's kind of a win for everyone. So I'm doing that. I'm designing for builders or new builders. I've got a great relationship with a builder down here in Southeast Victoria who's a second generation builder but only decided to get into tiny homes about 12 months ago. So we've been developing brand new product, helping with marketing that. And then James, who I work with in Brisbane, who's involved with the sort of taking over from Bretz, he has developed a range of ADUs, granny flats. So I've done all the drawings for those. They need building approval. So every time we sell one of those requires a set of drawings, which I'll do. And that's been really popular. It's a very different approach because you need the approvals and it's we do it by working with conventional builders. So there's about three builders we work with. And so it has to be within a certain radius, you know, otherwise travel is just not going to be feasible. So that's very Brisbane centric. But that keeps us busy. And that's where the display we have for the time hours is. So now all those layers and then going to these expos, I'm getting like just this morning, I've got confirmation that I've got another zoom straight after you. someone I met in Sydney at the Expo three weeks ago who wants to do an Airbnb and so on and so forth. So it's really interesting and varied. That's amazing that there's so much design work in the space and you know it's caught on so much in so many different applications and you're walking these projects through you know from beginning to end to bring together the resources and the people you're like a connector right of the talent in the space. Which is really important because, you know, we want to see more of this happen and yet, you know, connecting all the dots is still maybe a little bit harder because in every town, there's not a bunch of builders out there focusing on this smaller, you know, application and all of the unique attributes that come with that. So if you would, please share for any listeners who might be in your neck of the woods where listeners can find and get in touch with you. Sure. So my business name is Distilled Design. Distilled for the obvious, not booze, but that reduction of things into something that's still what you're looking for, the purest bit, if you like. So from big space to small space, they can remember it that way. Distilled Design. Tim at DistillDesign .com .au. That will find me. And if you happen to be in the Brisbane area and interested in a secondary dwelling, then you could look up Hive Small Homes, Hive as in beehive. And that also end up bringing you to us. Awesome. I've got an Instagram and a Facebook page for Distill Design. Awesome. Well, that was an amazing story that you shared with us of how you did so many great design projects, all of them different in different places. And now here you are kind of back home and building out your own small space that works for you and then helping other people and investors and commercial developers and everyone sort of follow this path to having more in a smaller package. So. Thanks for sharing your story with us, Tim. You're welcome. Thanks, Laura. Hey, thank you for taking the time to listen to Less House More Moolah. I have another free resource on my website for you, the Unconventional Values Quiz. In just two minutes, you can pinpoint your style of freedom seeker, security guardian, adventure enthusiast, or community builder. Check it out at thetinyhouseadvisor .com. And one more thing, podcasts don't have algorithms like social media does. They only grow by word of mouth and reviews. If this podcast is helpful to you, would you please post a review on your podcast app and tell a friend who is trying to live a values -based life? It would totally make my day.